Sadiq Khan on hunger in London classrooms | FT

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Recognition is building that, to get a good education, children need to be eating properly. The FT's seasonal appeal this year is funding Magic Breakfast to go into all sorts of schools across the country, to make sure that kids are eating properly so that they can learn.

We're here with Sadiq Khan, mayor of London, to talk about his priority for universal free school meals for all primary school children in London. Sadiq, thank you so much for making the time to see us.

It's a pleasure. Good to see you.

It seems that your mayoralty and the FT's Christmas appeal this year have a sort of joint priority, which is recognising the link between good nutrition for children and their ability to learn. But this is quite a relatively new policy priority for you. You announced your third term as London mayor. Why did you pick on this idea of free school meals, universal free school meals?

Two big reasons. Just think yourself, how do you behave when you're hungry? The word 'hangry.' As adults, we're rational people. But when we're hungry, we don't perform at our best.

But the second thing is... I remember from my own childhood, I remember a few things about being the recipient of means-tested free school meals. First, the forms my dad would fill in for us to be eligible to receive the free school meal. Secondly, the relief in my parents' minds knowing that we'd be able to eat properly at school because we were the beneficiaries of the means-tested free school meal.

But I also remember the embarrassment, the shame, the stigma. We'd have to queue up in the playground to receive our tickets. And then we'd eat separately from my mates because the free school meal kids were eating separately to the other kids, my friends. And so in some occasions, I'd go home for lunch because both of those things were not great.

And so when I got the opportunity a couple of years ago... and, particularly, when I was hearing some of the stories from parents skipping meals so their kids could eat, worst of the cost-of-living crisis, I heard stories told to me by teachers about teachers bringing in food themselves because they're really worried about the kids not having just a lunch but a breakfast as well. We heard stories about children taking an empty packed lunch and pretending to have a lunch to avoid embarrassment and so forth, many parents doing two or three jobs, choosing heating over eating.

And so I thought, what can we do from City Hall to support these families? So we did some research about the cost. And we introduced - and I'm really proud, one of my proudest achievements - universal free school meals for every child that goes to a state primary school. In the first year alone we provided 43mn meals. Around 300,000 children have benefited from this.

And here's the real prize. Lots of people are doing evaluations. The first one came in last week from the impact on urban health. And they've analysed the results from the first year. And they found, number one, it's had a positive financial impact on families. Eighty-four per cent have better family finances, significantly improved because of our policy.

Number two, it's improved children's health and well-being. Number three, parents are reporting, teachers are reporting children are calmer. They're better behaved. They can concentrate more. And they're being more productive. The fourth thing we were told, which was that the relationship between parents and schools has improved because schools aren't chasing parents for school dinner debt.

So you've obviously been able to do your initiative because inside your mayoralty you can control your budget, make priorities for your budget. I was talking to David Laws, who was the minister who got through universal free school meals for five to seven-year-olds under the coalition government. He said the crucial thing was getting it legislated so that no future set of Tory ministers could unpick it and reverse that decision. And that was quite a tough fight.

You've pledged that this will stay for the time that you're mayor of London. Would you hope that other mayoralties would follow suit as well? And would you hope maybe that there was some way that you could find the equivalent of that way of legislating to lock this in as a priority?

The downside of legislation is, obviously, it can be changed. And so there's nothing stopping a future government changing the provisions around reception in years one and two. What you want is public opinion to also on your side. And yes, I visit schools all the time. And the joy on the children's faces - it's something that never leaves you.

And I'd encourage anybody who's not seeing the benefits of Magic Breakfast or the benefits of what's happening in primary schools to go and see for themselves the difference it's making - children behaving better, children calmer, children concentrating more - and in London, primary schools and secondary schools as well.

And presumably there's also that benefit for the whole class.

Having a meal together is a life skill. Just think about the conversations you've had, the friendships that have grown by having a meal with somebody. And the same applies to children. It's also basic stuff, which is children are learning how to use a knife and fork. Children are learning how to break bread together, eating with your mates, eating with other people. Often in schools, which is just wonderful, the teachers will eat with the children. Some childrens' parents work in the kitchen. And so a school is a community.

But also, you're spot on. It means that a child has not got a rumbling tummy either before lunch or after lunch. It means teachers aren't thinking about pastoral care more than they should in relation to bringing food in and stuff but also means, look, parents know that this place they're sending their kids for eight hours is properly looking after them.

So also London, as well as being a wealthy city for some, there's great inequality. But also, we are home to the financial centre of Europe here. And yet, in the same city we have people unable to cope with the numerate literacy, the money sense that also helps with the cost-of-living crisis.

So obviously, part of the benefits of the FT's own charity is to try and improve these numeracy skills so hopefully we'll have more Magic Breakfast provision in schools - in secondary as well as primary - but, also, these classes in how to budget, how to handle finances when money is tight. Is that also something that you've come across as mayor, this difficulty in actually getting through a tough pinch point on the family finances?

I'm really excited about the Financial Times campaign in relation to financial inclusion and literacy. I saw when I was an MP doing constituency work the consequence of adults not understanding how to budget, about how interest rates work, what APR means, how to read a bank statement, often coming with carrier bags full of paperwork.

I'm not victim blaming. These are skills that are life skills if you know about them. Many of us are fortunate our parents or our older siblings will teach us this. But often, actually, our schools are a place that can be the safety net for those who, for a variety of reasons, haven't got older siblings or parents to teach them basic things.

Would you hope for more powers? Devolution is a key part of this government's agenda. What would you like them to give you as extra powers? And are some of those around education, skills, schools, ways to tackle deprivation in our city?

What a government should be doing - and this government is committed to doing this, I'm pleased to say - is to devolve powers and resources all across the country, including Scotland and Wales. I want Greater Manchester to have more powers and more resources and Merseyside and the west of Yorkshire and the west of England and on, and London.

I say this in a respectful way. London's comparator isn't the west of Yorkshire or Manchester. It's New York, Singapore, Hong Kong. We are the only global city in Europe. We've got the powers that other cities have. New York gets to spend 50 per cent 5-0 per cent of monies raised in New York; Tokyo, 70 per cent. We get to spend 7 per cent. That's not right. And so we are speaking to the government in relation to what more powers and resources we can have.

Sadiq, you're now into your third term as London mayor. I mean, I don't want to say you should stop there. Would you want to carry on and on?

I think...

There's no limit, right? There's no constitutional limit?

Yeah, I don't want to sound like Donald Trump. But there's no limit on being the mayor. But I think it's the height of vanity when you talk about how long you're going to go for a legacy and stuff. It's only been four months. In eight-and-a-half years, there's only been four months where I've had a Labour government. And when I think about the previous eight years we've been rowing against the tide of a Conservative government. I've now got the winds of a Labour government on my back. And it's quite good. And so let's see.

And last time Donald Trump was president of the United States, you and he got into quite a war of words. Would you be happy to welcome the second Donald Trump presidency to London?

I mean, the thing that's really important that I say to avoid any misunderstanding is that I'm somebody who believes in democracy and believes in the power of elections. And I think all of us should recognise that Donald Trump was voted the president of the USA. And that's just a fact. And so I congratulate him on being elected the president. He's the president-elect, and he will become the president on January the 20th.

And I'm also somebody who loves America. I've got family in America. I love American politics, American culture, American music and fashion, American businesses, who create jobs, wealth, and prosperity in London. And so I wish America well. But it's a fact we can't ignore that what happens in America affects us in London. It affects us across the country, across Europe, across the globe. We have a special relationship with the USA. And I hope that carries on forever.

The thing about special relationship is it's like having a best mate. Your expectations of your best mate are different from an acquaintance or a colleague. And the point I made the last time Donald Trump was president: I think Theresa May and Boris Johnson were so obsessed with being sycophantic. They were scared to say boo to a goose. They were scared to say, listen, mate, I'm not sure about that. And that's what I would expect a best mate to say to their friend.

And I'm hoping... we've got great relations. We have great relations with President Trump. Keir Starmer and David Lammy worked incredibly hard in relation to being close to both the Republican candidate and the Democrat candidate before November the 5th. But I will not be scared to speak up for London in relation to concerns I've got about the impact of what the American president does because, look, just like we feel the ripples of hope when the US rPesident does wonderful things, we actually experience the ripples of fear when an American president says and does things that aren't conducive to our progressive values in London.

I'm somebody who is pro human rights. I'm somebody who is pro women. I'm somebody who is pro democracy. I'm somebody who is pro the LGBTQ+ community. So look, if it's the case that this president acts in a way that I think is the opposite of our values, then I've got to speak up for our city.

So a frank and robust friendship.

Even president-elect Trump would accept... he's a protectionist. He's a nativist. He's a unilateralist. That poses real challenges for us as a capital city, the major urban economy in Europe, and a big challenge for our country.

I'm somebody who believes in the power of Nato, who thinks it's really important to stand up to Putin. I want a resolution to the conflict in the Middle East. I'm the father of two daughters. And so what the president of the USA does matters.

Sadiq Khan, what's your favourite breakfast to set you up for the working day?

Listen, I'm going to be really naughty. Almond croissant. You can't beat it.

And what's your ideal brain food, a lunch on a tough working day to make sure you can absorb all the information and act on it in the right way?

We're having this interview after lunch. And because I knew it was Miranda, I only had a soup because I need to be on my toes. I can't afford that high carb snooze in mid-afternoon when you're being interviewed by Miranda Green.

What's the best question a child of school age has ever asked you during your time as mayor of London?

They're crackers. And the thing with kids is you can't BS, right? Are you rich? How much do you earn? What did you want to be when you're little? What was your worst school pudding? Who was your favourite teacher?

Worst school pudding? That's a good question.

Lumpy custard is the answer. But it's not lumpy anymore. The quality of our lunches are fantastic, by the way. Who's your support? Who's your favourite footballer? Would you beat Donald Trump in a fight? And it goes on. And so they asked these great questions. And you know what? You think, I've not thought about that before. What's the answer? And so kids are great. They're so inquisitive. And that's a wonderful thing.

Thank you.